WASHINGTON (AP) — What people probably remember from the first debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump four years ago are the interruptions, the shouting and the cries of, “Shut up, man?”
Then-President Trump seemed determined to steamroll Biden at every turn in that first debate in Cleveland. The Democratic candidate then became desperate, and moderator Chris Wallace had to fight to regain control.
In 2024, many of the rules that Biden’s team insisted on – and that Trump’s campaign agreed to – are aimed at minimizing the risk of a cluttered repeat. All candidates’ microphones will be muted except when it is their turn to speak. There will be no studio audience to join in with jeers and boos.
The second and final presidential debate of 2020 took place in Nashville, Tennessee, and was considerably quieter than the first, due to a mute button and participants perhaps embarrassed by the needy ratings of the first debate, especially for Trump.
But if the debate between Biden and Trump this Thursday in Atlanta descends into chaos, we should remember that the past was only a prologue.
A look back at the first duel between Biden and Trump on September 29, 2020:
The debate begins to shift
It started quietly enough, with a brief exchange about the Supreme Court vacancy that had been created days earlier by the sudden death of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. But the conversation turned contentious as the men argued about health care reform and Trump’s handling of Covid-19.
The exchange over the pandemic was tense enough—Biden once told Wallace, “You won’t be able to silence him.” Then Biden pivoted back to the court and abortion rights, triggering another outburst from Trump that continued to irritate the Democrat (and probably Wallace, and perhaps the television audience as well).
“The point is that the president is also against Roe v. Wade,” Biden said of Trump. “That’s also on the ballot and in the courts, and that’s also at stake right now. And that’s why the election is everything –“
“You don’t know what’s on the ballot. Why is it on the ballot?” Trump interrupted. “Why is it on the ballot? It’s not on the ballot.”
Trump interrupted until Biden showed his anger at his opponent for the first time and said, “Donald, would you please be quiet for a moment?”
But Trump was not intimidated and refused to be questioned privately by Wallace about his plan to replace Obamacare. He mocked Biden, saying his victory in the primaries over Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders was “not very clear” and that he “barely lost the left” when he distanced himself from Sanders’ vision for health care reform.
“Guys,” Biden finally said, letting his anger seep through to the audience, “do you have any idea what this clown is doing?”
Biden: “Will you shut up, man?”
In a widely repeated clip of the chaos in Cleveland, Biden was finally seen snapping at Trump: “Will you shut up, man?”
It came amid a discussion of progressive proposals to overhaul the rules of the Senate or the Supreme Court itself – issues sensitive to an institutionalist like Biden. The Democrat, as he openly admitted, refused to answer the question.
So Trump took matters into his own hands.
“Are you going to pack the court? Are you going to pack the court?” Trump asked as Biden tried to make his point directly to the audience. Trump mumbled that Biden did not want to answer the question.
“Why don’t you answer that question? They want to appoint a lot of new justices to the Supreme Court. Radical left,” Trump concluded.
Then Biden lost his patience – again. “Will you shut up, man?”
But Trump – once again – was undeterred and forced Wallace to cut the segment brief and move on to another topic. Biden lamented how unproductive the discussion had been.
Trump insults Biden’s intelligence
The Republican also did not shy away from getting personal: He attacked Biden’s only living son, Hunter, and mocked the Democrat’s academic qualifications.
It seemed as if Trump had been waiting for Biden to apply some variation of the word “smart” to denounce his intelligence. When Biden warned that more Americans would die from Covid-19 if the president did not handle the pandemic more intelligently, Trump lashed out.
“Did you use the word ‘smart’?” Trump asked. “So you said you went to Delaware State, but you forgot the name of your college. You did not go to Delaware State. You were either the worst or near the worst in your class.”
“Don’t ever use the word ‘smart’ on me,” continued Trump, who graduated from the University of Pennsylvania. “Don’t ever use that word… Because you know what? There’s nothing smart about you, Joe.”
Biden received his bachelor’s degree from the University of Delaware in Newark in 1965 and enrolled in law school at Syracuse University shortly thereafter. He was not known for his excellent grades; at Syracuse he graduated 76th out of 85 students.
Trump nods to the Proud Boys
It was one of Trump’s most memorable moments, where he would not have interrupted Biden.
Wallace urged Trump to condemn white supremacists and militias, especially because the Republican president had devoted so much energy to denouncing so-called “Antifa,” or left-wing militant groups.
Trump responded that he was willing to do so, but never explicitly condemned any far-right groups by name. When Biden asked him to condemn the Proud Boys, one of those far-right groups, Trump apparently did the opposite.
“Proud Boys, stand back and stand by,” Trump said. Those words and the subsequent exchange caused some members of the neo-fascist group to celebrate what they perceived as the president’s implicit approval.
A day later, Trump was forced into cleanup duty. He said he did not know who the Proud Boys were, adding: “Whoever they are, they need to stand down. Let law enforcement do their job.”
The controversial exchange about Biden’s sons
Biden has long criticized Trump’s attitude toward US troops. In 2018, for example, he is said to have said that he did not want to visit a US military cemetery in France because he considered the soldiers who died there to be “idiots” and “losers.”
“The way you talk about the military, the way you talk about them being losers and, and, and, and just suckers,” Biden told Trump. Speaking of his older son Beau, a veteran who died of brain cancer, Biden continued, “My son was in Iraq. He spent a year there. He got – he got the Bronze Star. He got the Conspicuous Service Medal. He was not a loser. He was a patriot.”
Trump lashed out, targeting Biden’s younger son Hunter instead.
“Are you talking about Hunter? Are you talking about Hunter?” Trump replied, continuing, “I don’t know Beau. I know Hunter. Hunter was kicked out of the military.”
Trump then claimed that Hunter Biden was dishonorably discharged, which Biden immediately denied. Hunter Biden was discharged from the Navy in 2014 after testing positive for cocaine, but that is not a dishonorable discharge.
“My son … like many other people we know at home, had a drug problem. He overcame it,” Biden said, adding, “I’m proud of my son.”
Biden pledges not to announce his victory until the election is confirmed, Trump not
In the final moments of the first debate, Wallace asked both candidates if they would commit to not declaring their victory until the election was independently certified and urged their respective supporters to remain peaceful.
Trump, however, refused, saying instead that he would urge his supporters to watch polling stations and mused about voter fraud.
Biden, on the other hand, answered the same question: “Yes.”
Trump, who was set to lose the 2020 election, never conceded defeat. Less than three months after the debate in Cleveland, on January 6, 2021, a mob of his supporters, fueled by his election lies, stormed the Capitol.
