In an extensive interview with NBC’s Kristen Welker on Meet the Press, President-elect Donald Trump discussed immigration at length. My colleague Teri Christoph has a rundown of what he said about the more kinetic part of the equation: driving a few million illegals out of the US and sending them home (SEE: Trump Tells Welker “Retribution Will Be Through Our Success” and deportations will be a priority). The part that struck me as most intriguing was Trump’s deeper dive into our extremely dysfunctional immigration system.
Birthright immigration
A lot of people don’t want to hear it, but there is very little illegal immigration to places where the illegals can’t stay. Europe has achieved this by creating very, very lax “asylum” standards supported by an extraordinarily generous welfare system that allows migrants to do nothing and get paid for it. As Americans, we created the illegal immigration magnet in a different way. We recognize the grant of American citizenship if born on American soil. This in turn enables parents and siblings to stay legally. Our “family reunification” policy inevitably attracts more people. The term “anchor baby” causes aneurysms on the permissive immigration debate side, but they are a fact.
President Trump says it’s still his plan to abolish birthright: “We’re the only country that has it!” pic.twitter.com/iOdkKQ2gnZ
— Trump War Room (@TrumpWarRoom) December 8, 2024
KRISTEN WELKER:
They promised to abolish birthright from day one.
ELECTED PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
Correct.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is that still your plan?
ELECTED PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
Yes. Absolutely.
KRISTEN WELKER:
However, the 14th Amendment states, quote, “All persons born in the United States are citizens.”
ELECTED PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Can you get around the 14th Amendment with executive action?
ELECTED PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
Well, we have to change it. We may need to return to the people. But we have to stop it. We’re the only country that has it, you know.
KRISTEN WELKER:
By executive action? You will –
ELECTED PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
They know we are the only country that has it. You know, when someone puts one foot on our land, just one foot, one foot, you don’t need two, “Congratulations, you’re now a citizen of the United States of America.” Yes, we’re going to stop this because it’s ridiculous .
KRISTEN WELKER:
Through executive action?
ELECTED PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
You know – well, if we can, through executive action. I wanted to do it through executive action, but then, to be forthright, we had to get COVID under control first. We have to end it.
Unsurprisingly, Welker frames her answer with a lie: “However, the 14th Amendment states, quote, ‘All persons born in the United States are citizens.’
The actual quote is:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction are citizens of the United States and of the state in which they reside.
While there is widespread agreement with an interpretation that says a child born to an illegal is a citizen, there is nothing in our law that says this and much that says exactly the opposite. Read this excellent essay about why Birthright citizenship is not a constitutional right.
I don’t know if executive action will be enough to change our direction, as this can be reversed by any future president. I think the clearest course of action would be a court case that concludes: “You can all do that if you want, but there is no constitutional reason to support birthright citizenship.”
DREAMS
This is one of the most difficult immigration challenges posed by so-called Dreamers; These are people who were brought to the USA illegally as small children. They were born outside the United States and remain illegals. However, they often only speak English and have no connection to their country of origin. They were allowed to remain in the United States through an Obama program called Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA).
TRUMP on “DREAMers”: “The DREAMers will come later, and we have to do something about the DREAMers. Because these are people who were brought here at a very young age, and many of them are now middle-aged people.” They don’t even speak the language of their country. pic.twitter.com/tPwtspPy7H
– Jorge Bonilla (@BonillaJL) December 8, 2024
KRISTEN WELKER:
What about dreamers, sir? Dreamers who were brought to this country illegally as children. You once said in 2017, quote, “You shouldn’t be too worried about deportation.” Should you be worried now?
ELECTED PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
The dreamers will come later and we have to do something about the dreamers because they are people who were brought here at a very newborn age. And many of them are now middle-aged people. They don’t even speak the language of their country. And yes, we will do something about the dreamers. And –
KRISTEN WELKER:
What does that mean? What are you going to do?
ELECTED PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
I will work with the Democrats on a plan. And if we can come up with a plan, but the Democrats have made it very, very challenging to do anything. Republicans are very open to the Dreamers. We are talking about the dreamers who were brought to this country many years ago. Many years ago. Some of them are no longer newborn people. And in many cases they were successful. They have great jobs. In some cases they have compact businesses. In some cases these may be immense companies. And we have to do something with them. And –
KRISTEN WELKER:
You want them to be able to stay, is that what you mean?
ELECTED PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
I do. I want to be able to work something out, and I should have been able to work it out over the last three or four years, but it never happened. You know, Biden could have done it because he controlled Congress to some extent, right? He could have done something, but they didn’t. I never understood why, because they always seemed to want to do it, but when it comes down to it, they don’t. I think we can work with the Democrats and work something out.
Trump may find that the same obstacle that prevented a solution to Dreamers early in his first term remains. The Democrats don’t care about solving the Dreamer question. But they care deeply about keeping it alive so they can demagogue it to fight immigration reform and raise money from their donor base; see The Democrats don’t want a DACA deal, they want a DACA problem. Trump has much more negotiating potential on this issue than on primary citizenship. DACA was declared illegal by a federal judge. This halted processing of the over 80,000 applications currently in progress. The decision has been appealed and will be heard in the Fifth Circuit.
[District Court Judge Andrew] Hanen’s orders are: likely to appeal to the US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit and finally to the US Supreme Court.
Given the conservative leanings of the Fifth Circuit, the appeals court is unlikely to overturn the decision and restore DACA. In 2015 the fifth district confirmed an earlier Hanen Ruling halting another deferred action program, Deferred Action for Parents of Americans and Lawful Permanent Residents (DAPA).
The prospects of the Supreme Court restoring DACA appear equally bleak. While the US Supreme Court allowed DACA to survive In Department of Homeland Security v. Regents of the University of California In 2020, the majority opinion was based on the Trump administration’s improper actions in its attempted DACA rescission in 2017. This decision did not address the question of whether DACA itself was lawful.
Previously, in 2016, the Supreme Court Divided 4-4 in upholding the Fifth Circuit’s previous decision stopping the similar DAPA policy. With this 4-4 court now having a 6-3 conservative majority, DACA faces an uphill battle for survival.
But if Democrats refuse to cooperate, Trump will face an uphill battle finding a successor to DACA, which can only pass the House with Republican votes. He will then be faced with the choice of ignoring the law, like Obama and Biden, or deporting tens of thousands of people to countries where they are foreigners. I can even imagine the Democrats choosing to force this decision.
Final note
The border wall and tougher policing are only part of the equation. For any kind of long-term border security, we must ensure that the ability of idiots like Joe Biden to make politics on the fly is circumscribed. We must act to withdraw the incentives that attract millions of people to the United States. One of these incentives is the knowledge that by giving birth to a child on American soil, the parents are likely to avoid deportation. And we must also act with compassion toward those who, like the Dreamers, have been rendered stateless by the actions of their parents. At the same time, we must ensure that any program to accommodate DACA enrollees has a final date and does not become just another way to circumvent the system.
